The Rhythm Of Business: Learning From The Performing Arts

Dan Sullivan: Hi, this is Dan Sullivan, and I'm here again with my endless conversational partner, Jeff Maddoff. Jeff is in his Upper West Side palace, and I'm in the foyer of The Four Seasons Hotel here in Palm Beach.
 
We were just discussing great, great individual performances that are caught on film from the 1930s, Forties, and the ones we're going to show you are in black and white, which kind of focuses your eyes actually on the actual performance. We have three of them and we're just going to discuss them one at a time. And we'll just start off, Jeff, I'll leave it over to you, because having sent two to you, you came up with another one. So I think the performance here is mind boggling. And when we were doing our, you know, lead up and going through the videos before we started the podcast, Jeff was watching me and my smile on my face just got bigger and bigger. I mean, I didn't have my mouth open, but it was really quite extraordinary.
 
So, Jeff, I'll let you do the introduction here.
 
Jeff Madoff: Thanks, Dan.
 
You know, it's, what's really fascinating is when you watch great performers what you're also witnessing is a great collaboration, and also great respect for each other, because somebody has to lead, which means somebody has to follow in order for it to work. But they both have to be equally clear on the goals and what they're doing.
 
And so I also look at business, in a way, being very much analogous or analogous to the entertainment world, where collaboration and everyone reading from the same script is what nets great results. And so how do you foster that kind of collaboration and what are the results of it?
 
Dan, you had wanted to talk about this kind of collaboration, which I love and I'm deeply involved with with my play, Personality, and one of the first things that caught you was Eleanor Powell with Fred Astaire, who were both just phenomenal performers. But I will say that, like in business, they both prepare before they perform.
 
None of these things that we're going to show you—and these are actually fairly simple in terms of what it looks like—but it's incredibly complex, the talents and how they had to sync with each other in order to make it the piece of entertainment that made both Dan and I smile ear to ear.
 
So tell us why Eleanor Powell and Fred Astaire caught you, Dan, and what did you get from them?
 
Dan Sullivan: Well, first of all, Fred Astaire, I think is, you know, if you ask most people who know something about 20th Century entertainment, you know, name top performers who just stayed on top for decades over long, long periods of time, and these people were in their prime when you and I were born, you know, when we were children.
 
Jeff Madoff: Before we were born.
 
Dan Sullivan: Before we were born, but I don't have much memory of watching entertainment before I was born.
 
Jeff Madoff: (Laughs.) Well, you see, you had a different thing. In terms of my mom, you know, she always had things going on, and somehow I think my dad putting a projector right up against her belly on the inside and I was able to watch these things.
 
Dan Sullivan: You were kind of captured before you were born. It took me a while to go-
 
Jeff Madoff: Captive audience, by the way, during pregnancy, you're really-
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah, but the one I like, this one, is that most people, when they hear the word Fred Astaire and they know something about Fred Astaire, the first other name that comes to mind for most people is Ginger Rogers. And she was terrific. I mean, she was an amazing. And when she died, I remember she died much later than he did, and they said she could do everything Fred Astaire could do, only backwards and in high heels.
 
Do you remember that?
 
Jeff Madoff: Yes.
 
Dan Sullivan: But Eleanor Powell was Ginger Rogers’s match. I mean, if you watch her. And this, I guess this would have been in the Thirties that they got together, because this was right at the beginning when Fred Astaire really became famous, and a lot of people don't know the name Eleanor Powell.
 
I didn't realize that when we got into this topic that, I think there's at least 4 individuals that we have on three of the short videos that you actually met. So that brings it even more to home about what we're discussing here.
 
So the first one that we're going to show you is Eleanor Powell and Fred Astaire.
 
Jeff Madoff: And here we go.
 
[Music plays with accompanying sounds of tap-dancing.]
 
You know, I—I didn't want to interrupt that amazing tap dancing, but what's really interesting is so people look at that and call it “tap dancing.” In fact, they're two musicians, and they're playing the floor as a percussion instrument, you know, which is so cool.
 
And the other thing about it, which I think is so fabulous, is it's like watching great athletes or a great musician, where what they do, what we see looks easy. Try it. It's not. You know, it takes so many years of dedication, but when you get that good, that preparation comes to the fore and it looks so flowing and simple.
 
You know, in in my world, having shot many dancers, ballerinas and so on, and then modern dancers, but then working with models, so the models move well in a certain way, but nothing like a dancer, you know, they just don't have that grace. They weren't trained. And in order to be a good dancer, you are trained and you have to train an incredible amount to achieve that level of talent for just fabulous.
 
Dan Sullivan: Well, I think the practice is one thing and there's years and years of practice on their own before they met each other. So the big thing is that you develop two universes of talent in terms of these individuals, and they come together and together they create something that's a third thing. You know, the performance is the third thing. And if you watch each of them, individual, it's magical, but putting the two of them together, where they're playing off each other, and it's really… And you can see that what comes across is that Fred Astaire, you know, he's legendary. He's just a legendary thing. And what you see here is that he's almost upping the ante against her throughout the entire dance, he says “I'll raise the bet and let's see what you got,” and she keeps going higher and higher with him. And then at a certain point they're just completely together. It's a marvelous, marvelous thing.
 
But a lot of people, if you don't know this, tap dancing requires just incredible muscle strength throughout your entire body, but your feet take a beating. Ginger Rogers said that, I mean, they would do for a single scene that shows up in the movie, she said, “I'd have to stop because blood was coming out of my shoes.”
 
In one of them, she said, “We did 23 takes in the same day.” Complete takes throughout the same day, and he said, “No, no, I don't think so.” And he he didn't have watch the reruns of the film, because this was a full studio cast and they had an audience there, you know, I mean, there's a lot of extras in that scene. You can see the audience at the end. They were doing it. The camera was shooting outward for them and just the lighting, the quality of the lighting and everything was just really amazing.
 
Jeff Madoff: Well, and the other thing that you see is that there were no edits. This was a straight-through performance for the two-and-a-half minutes that they were dancing, and the way that they played off each other like what you were talking about, and which looked like great fun, was amazing. And to be able to sustain that.
 
These days in a movie, that would probably be three or four days of shooting to piece it together and try to give you the razzle-dazzle of the editing and close-ups of the feet and an overhead shot. But you don't need it.
 
Dan Sullivan: That was one camera shot. There wasn't a shot from this side, and you know the way they do it today, there would be constant movement between different takes, you know, and everything else. And that's all done in the editor’s studio. This wasn't done in the editor’s studio.
 
Jeff Madoff: Well, that's right. And you know, the precursor to movies, of course, was live performance on stage. And so until a more sophisticated film vocabulary was brought to the floor, things were shot much simpler. But the thing about that is—although you know, I would say people would argue that people's attention span was greater then, and that's probably true, there aren't so many things competing for it—but I would compare it to Adele, you know who was so fabulous that there's no light shows, there's no dancers, she's just got this talent that takes over the stage.
 
And when you have someone who's that compelling, you don't need anything else. And that's, you know, an example of the less is more. And it’s fun to do multiple-cameras doing things.
 
And even in those days, by the way, Busby Berkeley, who did these incredible things, that were very complex the way they were shot with overhead and multiple cameras, and he was the first person to really do that, and in some ways, the precursor to some of the music videos that we've seen. But I'm wondering, do you see the same relationship in terms of the collaboration necessary, the preparation necessary, do you apply that at all to business.
 
Dan Sullivan: Oh yeah.
 
One is that, from childhood, I've always been a really good team member. You know, I grew up in a farm. I'm a fifth child in a farm family, and the siblings were already off to school when I was born, so I just had to pick on my mom and dad to be useful.
 
So I learned really, really young that every day look for something that you can do for Mom especially, and then Dad. It just gives you a free pass to life when you have that attitude.
 
But then as I've gotten, you know, more accomplished in my own business, like when I was 70—so I'll be 79 in a couple of months—I decided that to make life really, really interesting, it wasn't about me and my achievements for the rest of my life. It was just matching my skills up with someone at a very high level. And I could just take what I do, they are equally skilled in what they do, and we just put it together to create something that's a new thing.
 
So that's my attitude, and I think you've been more in the collaboration business for much longer than I have because you've been in the production world in a lot of different ways since I've known you, which goes back about 10-11 years.
 
But the magic is in the collaboration, your own performance, your own skills, your own Unique Ability and everything else is preparation for collaboration.
 
Jeff Madoff: Yeah, I think that's really interesting because a lot of people like to put forth the idea that they did it alone. Which is, you know, some chest-beating. But it's not really true. Because there is so much support.
 
Dan Sullivan: But if you have that attitude, you die quickly. (Laughs.)
 
I remember just a couple examples: I went to Rome and, you know, we had a guide who took us around for a couple of days before we were just on our own. And he took us to about five or six of the Bernini fountains, the great fountains of Rome. Most of them are by a single sculptor, you know, and I said, “Geez,” I said, “how did he get so much done? “ You know, he's got things in the Vatican, and-
 
So I looked it up, and he had a company of 10,000 craftsmen. I mean, yeah, a lot of money flowing in, you know, he was a big deal. So he, when you see the sculptures he had finger guys, he ear guys, he had nose guys. But he had the overall concept, he was putting together the overall concept, and then he had people who always worked with him. You know, you could just count on them.
 
And then the modern day version of that in a completely different medium is Chihuly, the great glass-blower. And you go to the Bellagio, if you've been in the lobby of the Bellagio, it's it's huge. I mean, it's just really huge, and the whole ceiling is blown glass. But Chihuly was the glass-blower who was, you know, very famous in his own right, but he had an accident where he lost sight in one eye and you can't be a glass blower if you don't have two. You know, you have to be able visually to control the whole field, and so what he did is that he just started doing rough designs, which he could do. Then he had a constant flow of really, really great glass-blowers who needed someone to give them a purpose for their glass-blowing. And so he's got, you know, a company of 200 now. And it was just amazing what it's done.
 
So the whole point is that your own skill-development in life and your own expertise that gets known and you get well-paid for it, for me, that's just preparation for collaboration with equally great people.
 
Jeff Madoff: Oh, I'm totally with you, and you know when you think about business and the arts, for instance, an example I think of is Andy Warhol, who called his group “The factory”. And that's because he had so many people working on each piece of art. He could have never been as prolific as he was if he did it all himself.
 
And I had an artist in my class, Zaria Forman, look up her work. It's phenomenal. These photo-realistic, glacial landscapes, and they're just absolutely magnificent. And she does them all with her fingertips, and it's phenomenal when you see these. And she said as demand grew for her work, she realized that she couldn't meet that demand if she was doing everything herself, from start to finish. And she said, “You know, at first, I felt like I was cheating because I would have somebody prepare the canvas. I would have somebody else do the undercoat.” You know each step, like Bernini, defined what they did, so the whole would come together and work, and she could turn out more work.
 
So it was always her vision. But she had the workers, so to speak, you know, the people she collaborated with to help execute on that and then she said, “I realized so many of the artists did that.” She said, “As an artist I never even really knew that.” Until she went into it, she said,” No, no, I'm cheating. I'm not gonna cheat on my art.”
 
So that collaboration, when you're trying to bring about a result, whether it's something on canvas, the glass ceiling, any kind of result in business, everybody's got to have their eye on the same goal as defined and as agreed upon, and then the talents to share so that they can execute on that idea.
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah, I wanted to show another one because these two are, for the most part, completely not known. Like, I will bring up their name when people are talking about performers from mid-century or first half of the 20th Century and that they're just not known. But when you watch the two of them together, you'll say, “Oh, you know, I think Eleanor and Fred were really good, but this may be a notch higher.”
 
So talk about the Nicholas Brothers.
 
Jeff Madoff: The Nicholas Brothers, you know, it was really interesting because they're, of course, known in vaudeville circus and so on in live theatre. And they're extraordinary talents. And there were very few avenues of display for Black performers. And so they would often become the standout number in a movie when they had like about three minutes, but they blew everything else off the screen because they were extraordinary.
 
And I was fortunate to meet, I don't remember his first name for sure, but the older Nicholas brother who lived to be quite an old age, and I saw him perform in person. And I think he was, I don't remember how old he was exactly, but probably in his eighties and still very lean. Still moved amazingly well, and when you see the two of them together, watch them, think about what you saw with Fred Astaire and Eleanor Powell, the complementary movements and what they did, and then we're going to go to something else which does this vocally instead of physically, which is really cool.
 
But I will share the Nicholas Brothers. This is such a joy to watch. It's just insanely cool. They're just marvelous performers.
 
[Music plays with singing and tap-dancing over-top.]
 
My groin hurts when I watch that.
 
Dan Sullivan: We should just do that for one of our podcasts, just a dance routine.
 
Jeff Madoff: I’d love to.
 
You know, the thing that is so cool about that is, it's almost like a physicalization of a great brainstorming session.
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah.
 
Jeff Madoff: You know, just these ideas, just rebounding off each other. And again, they have to be so in sync, not to mention the musicians who were sitting there playing and they're jumping a few inches way from them, and they're just keeping playing and have the faith they're not gonna get kicked.
 
And by the way, the audience should know that the singer at the beginning was Cab Calloway.
 
Dan Sullivan: Oh yeah.
 
Jeff Madoff: And he was a great bandleader. And he's a trip to watch himself, just conduct, he’s so much fun.
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah, there is a great routine that the Nicholas Brothers are actually in and it's Benny Goodman’s “Sing, Sing, Sing”. But it's with Cab Calloway and his band, and Louis Armstrong is featuring.
 
Jeff Madoff: Gene Krupa plays drums in it.
 
Dan Sullivan: Oh yeah, of course, Gene Krupa, yeah.
 
Jeff Madoff: Phenomenal.
 
Dan Sullivan: Phenomenal.
 
But the other thing is that it was very interesting that in the Eleanor Powell, Fred Astaire one, they used the mirrored floor as a second dimension. OK? Here, they use their shadows on the wall as a second dimension.
 
So you have the two dancers, but then you have their shadow dancing on the wall. The cinematography was just amazing on this.
 
I will say here they cheated because there were several camera takes on this one.
 
Jeff Madoff: Yes, yeah.
 
The physicality of what they do is absolutely astounding. It's just absolutely astounding and-
 
Dan Sullivan: It'll just show you where yoga will get you if you. At a certain point you can actually turn it into some form of entertainment. That's why I've always found yoga kind of boring because, you know, I just didn't get the impact, the entertainment impact of yoga.
 
Jeff Madoff: I've started some conversations with this guy, Andrew Burns, who was on the Yale panel that I moderated. At the Sci City for Innovative Thinking and it's really interesting. He finances businesses that are run by people who have some background, and a fairly significant background—I'm not talking about stars now, but people who were in the performing arts.
 
And his belief is, and it's more out than some of the companies that he's been working with, is that what you learn in the performing arts in terms of collaboration, improvisation, all the things that you have to do to pull off a good performance. He believes the discipline of being in the performing arts enhances one's ability in business to do the same in order to achieve a goal in getting those forces marshalled together, and all of that.
 
What is your take on that?
 
Dan Sullivan: Well, or athletics. Like team athletics too, is… I've got a variety of different collaborative backgrounds. I have, you know, a growing number of people with special forces, Delta Force, Navy Seals, you know, Army Rangers, and everything like that, and they do very, very well because you have to constantly watch what your other team members are doing, you know? And they said that you get to the point where you take the bullets so one of your team members doesn't take it. It’s the… You're so confident about your own capabilities that you can go to another dimension with someone else.
 
Jeff Madoff: And what about yourself and your desire, which maybe a lot of people don't know unless they've listened to every one of our podcasts, your own desire to be in theatre?
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah. And I was for a five year period between 18 and 23, you know, I was personally in five or six plays, major role, when I was in Korea and I had the entertainment program. I was the coordinator for half of South Korea.
 
And I was just a draftee. I mean, I was drafted into the Army, and when I got to basic training there were two things that came across me, of how the other draftees were looking at the next two years, and most of them just said, “It's a wasted two years.”
 
And I said, “No way I'm going to waste two years.”
 
And the other thing is “Never volunteer for anything.”
 
And I immediately said, “Gee, I wonder what happens with the person who volunteers for everything,?” You know, and sort of entrepreneurial instincts there.
 
So because of my theater background and we were in a community where there were men, women, and children. It was, looked like Sioux City, Iowa. If you didn't look above the walls, it looked like Sioux City, Iowa. When America goes overseas, they take America with them.
 
So I had children, so I put on a full blown production of Oliver, or the musical Oliver when I was 22 years old and we had a cast about sixty, sixty-five. We did it with a piano score, the whole thing. Then we had a live pianist who did the the music, and it kind of got it out of my system. I knew I wasn't gonna do this as a career, but I had gotten to explore…
 
But I treat my business, Strategic Coach, as a production that has, you know, different teams of skilled people who are all linked together to put on, we do about 500 workshop days a year, you know, with our clients. And it's very meticulous: Behind each workshop is about 100 methods that people have to master. And this is backstage. This is backstage. Everything has to be put together.
 
I mean, the book on backstage is about this thick, the book on front stage is about this thick. There's no question about it.
 
Anything where you have to be good yourself and then you have to jump to another level and then you have to master a whole other skill of how your skill meshes with other people's skill, if it's outside of business, it pays off when you get into business.
 
Jeff Madoff: Yeah, I think so too. And it always, to me, seemed like a very natural comparison where a lot of times people and business dismissed the performing arts as being kind of frivolous or not important or not being grounded, when in fact what they pull off is a pretty complex exercise.
 
In working on the play, one of the first things that hit me—and this was actually just the workshop—and then I experienced it on a different level, a higher level in Malvern, both of which you saw those productions. But the first thing you do is a table-read and, and all the other different creative departments are observing—set, lighting, sound—everybody's observing what's going on, so they get a sense of the play and how it sounds.
 
And I'm sitting there before we start, before the director, Sheldon Epps says, “OK, let's go. We'll start on this.” And he reads all the stage directions, because we’re literally sitting around the table. And they were like 56 people. And I thought, “Wow. I was sitting at home, typing this out not too long ago. And now look at this.”
 
And now we've got 30 people who were just administrative, the different aspects of it and the production has grown substantial, but it's all those same dynamics. And I think there's a, I don't know whether it's a skill or a personality trait, but in order to accomplish the kinds of things that are so much fun to watch that we just did, and we'll show one more. The ability to actually listen. And I've been in so many situations where people don't feel they need to listen. And I think that's a critical failure whether you're doing a play, trying to execute a play on this field in sports, or if you're in the conference room, if you're just waiting for you to talk and you're not taking it in, that's a huge shortcoming.
 
Dan Sullivan: Well, I was thinking, because several podcasts back, you were just going through your Chicago auditions. So you had done New York auditions that played up to the first opening on the road with Philadelphia, but that was OK because you could use your New York cast for it. But when you went to Chicago, first of all, it's two years or—? No, last year you did the Philadelphia.
 
Jeff Madoff: Yeah, March of ‘22.
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah, but you were going into a new city and you were doing a 12-week run and actors, you know, if you don't lock them up, they have to entertain other offers and that, but you were able to hang on to the substantial core of which you had created at the first two steps, the workshops in New York and then the opening you were talking about.
 
It's really tough getting actors for musicals because they have to be actors, and then they have to be singers, and they have to be dancers. OK? But the fourth one, I gotta feel that why the ones you chose, there were people who had all three of those, but they didn't have the fourth one, and that is that they're really good at teamwork.
 
Jeff Madoff: And the fourth thing is really, I have to say that all of the dancers, they know that's what they have to do, because they aren't going out there and doing a solo performance.
 
And it's fascinating, because I never had the opportunity prior to starting this play, to work up close with the choreographer. I did it for a few commercials, but not nearly as involved. I mean, those were 30 seconds. This is a two-hour enterprise. All the little pieces that you have to master before you even start putting it together.
 
And you know, we have a marvelous choreographer, Edward Baldino. They did The Temptations musical, Ain't Too Proud is the name of it, but he is the associate choreographer on that. But to watch how a routine gets built.
 
That's another thing when you're watching Eleanor Powell and Fred Astaire, watching the Nicholas Brothers, every one of those steps that each little part is what then ended up the whole. But they had to master each part, you know.
 
And it's phenomenal with the Nicholas Brothers, you under, you know, “So who came up with this stair idea? Where did that happen?” You know, and just the different things that went into that are so marvelous.
 
But you know when you relate that to business, when you listen to your fellow collaborators, when you respect other ideas and are open to that, you can come up with incredible, incredible things.
 
I think one of those incredible things, another example we could go to the Judy Garland, Mel Tormé. This was from Judy Garland's TV show, which I think was late Fifties, maybe very early Sixties. Again, black and white. And the simplicity of just the two of them singing.
 
And I'd like to sort of plant the seeds in the listeners’ heads, ‘cause this is by the way—we could put the links to those three numbers on there, you know—but listen to this singing and think about it as dancing. And you'll get an idea of how much these two things relate so thoroughly.
 
So shall I go to that, Dan and play? OK.
 
Jeff Madoff: Unbelievable.
 
Dan Sullivan: [Laughs.] Yeah, yeah.
 
Jeff Madoff: You know, and you think about a symphony orchestra: Everyone reading from the same sheets, the conductor keeping it all together, all the different individual pieces that happened.
 
I mean, again, it's so much like how a good business runs. It's just incredible. And and again, I think that, at least to me, hearing Mel Tormé and Judy Garland, their vocalizing is not unlike watching those amazing dance numbers.
 
Dan Sullivan: And yeah, and exquisite timing. I mean, the [vocalizes] and they're sitting there and they're listening, they're listening, they're listening.
 
We've talked about this on previous podcasts before: The combination of great listening and timing is the foundation of all skill.
 
Jeff Madoff: Yes. Absolutely, absolutely.
 
I mean, isn't that what one does back in the early days when people would apprentice, you know, you watch the masters to know what they're doing, and you learn from that by listening and by asking questions.
 
But the other part of it we didn't talk about, but I think is absolutely essential, is respect the process, trust the process, respect the process. I think a lot of people don't understand the notion that things take time. And that there is a process to doing something well.
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah.
 
One of the things that is a temptation that first of all makes people solo performers, and that collaborative performers, is the fact that we have multiplier communication mediums, OK? And that if you get something, that particular act together, you can be known by millions of people very, very quickly, you know. And I think that the temptation is you'll get frozen with what hit the spot and you won't take your skill any further.
 
Jeff Madoff: And that is huge because I think, to me, the fuel of creativity is curiosity. “What if? But what if we did this?”
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah, but I think the long period of developing your skill before the world really knows about it is really crucial.
 
Jeff Madoff: Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
 
You know, I mean, it was interesting because way back when when it was vaudeville theaters and plays that dominated the entertainment landscape, you know, before movies and before television, you didn't have the wide exposure. So before you got into in front of a really big audience you had performed and performed and performed, and you had nailed it down.
 
And even up into the Sixties with comedians, you know, the big break was when they got on “The Tonight Show” with Johnny Carson. That was a big break that could launch a career. And conversely, if you got on there and didn't deliver, that could kill your career.
 
But what happens is the temptation to go for the big money and the big platform seduced a lot of people because they had nothing to follow it up with because they didn't have any reservoir.
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah. If you had massive reach but your talent growth, your capability growth, gets suspended because you think you're great. You know, you think you're great. But then it's always a bit of a sad thing to watch people were very famous in their teens. And I think this is the topic for another podcast, but I'm having my best career in my seventies, and I think you're having your—you're not having your best career, but you're having a career where it's on a big stage. I mean, you were always part of the backstage, you were part of the video, and now this is a major, major front stage experience. I think the first name on the billing is yours. And I know that right from the beginning, the whole team got mentioned and everything, but I think that probably if you looked at your career from your basement movie theaters, when you were a child to where you are right now, you can look at the whole thing as R&D for the particular thing you're working on right now.
 
Jeff Madoff: That's right.
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah. And I feel the same way. You know, people say, “You know, you're writing, you have podcasts. People are really starting to know you and everything else.”
 
And I said, “Yeah for seventy years were R&D and now I'm starting to get serious.”
 
Jeff Madoff: Exactly.
 
Dan Sullivan: We're almost at your hard edge here, so-
 
Jeff Madoff: Well, I think we should say thank you to our audience and that this has been “Anything and Everything”, and a whole new approach that I have no idea we're going to go into, but it was great.
 
And I hope if you're listening to this, seek these performances on YouTube. They're great fun to watch and hopefully the message that we're giving resonates with you.
 
I guess, again, we proved the “Anything and Everything” aspect of this podcast, Dan.
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah, this was actually the first one where we get to be spectators for part of the production.
 
Jeff Madoff: Yes, that's true.
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah, and it was great because they were just little nuggets, you know, I think the longest was about three minutes, and there's just tons of this stuff on YouTube. I mean, if you look up any famous artist from mid-century or Thirties and Forties and they had cameras and they could record, we can now look back, probably certainly 80 years, 80, 90 years, we can look back now and the quality is good. They've been remastered. A lot of the work has been remastered. But it's a real treat.
 
The neat thing is is these people last forever now, you know?
 
Jeff Madoff: I'd like to also ask our listeners to leave a comment. That would be great, if you did that.
 
I guess it's fair to say, you know, at the end of the performance, since we can't hear you applaud, but we hope we enjoyed it anyhow.
 
Dan Sullivan: Good. On the sidebar on Google, you should have thumbs up. You should see hundreds of thumbs up going up on anyway.
 
Great pleasure as always, Jeff.
 
Jeff Madoff: Thanks for joining us today on our show, “Anything and Everything”. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend.
 
For more about me and my work, visit acreativecareer.com and madoffproductions.com. To learn more about Dan and Strategic Coach, visit strategiccoach.com.