How To Innovate In An Old-School Industry, with Carson Holmquist

Steven Krein: Hi, it’s Steven Krein from Startup Health. I’m here with my podcast partner, Dan Sullivan from Strategic Coach, my mentor and coach. And we’re excited about our second episode with Carson Holmquist from Stream Logistics. Really a fascinating manifestation of Free Zoning in a physical world with technology and innovation that I think perfectly demonstrates why Free Zoning is the new sport of entrepreneurs and Strategic Coach that we all aspire to operate in. Hi Carson. Hey Dan.
 
Dan Sullivan: Hi Steve.
 
Carson Holmquist: Hey Steve. Hey Dan.
 
Dan Sullivan: Steve, that was a eye opener. I’m in the idea business, but our idea business is person to person, and we’ve had a breakthrough with Zoom because of our adjustment to COVID. But still what we’re moving around is ideas, and generally, we’re moving the ideas around using some form of digital communication. And what Carson brought us in for the first hour was, “Hey, physical world still counts in a very, very big way.” And I was just blown away about the creativity he has used around his fundamentally central transportation company. And connecting two ends to each other in total unique ways, totally innovative, transformative ways. So, this was a real treat.
 
Carson Holmquist: Yeah. It’s great to be on too. I mean, it’s great to recall all the steps that got us here and the innovation, but it was all just fueled because we wanted to solve problems for a very specific set of people. Instead of trying to solve problems for a very diverse set of people, we’re focused on very specific problems, which allows us to pour all of our energy into it. And the results have been phenomenal, and our team has gotten creative because of our commitment to off-site construction and high stakes freight.
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah.
 
Steven Krein: Carson mentioned in the last episode about the pivotal question was, “Who do you want to be hero to?” I know that when I was posed that question many years ago, for me it just became about entrepreneurs transforming healthcare. And then as I worked with entrepreneurs transforming healthcare, I got much more specific about the kinds of entrepreneurs that were transforming healthcare and their mindset and a lot of characteristics about those entrepreneurs. The ambition mattered, of course mindset mattered, but really the commitment to making impact mattered really beyond what I originally envisioned when I described who I wanted to be hero to. How has your hero target gotten clearer as you’ve served that hero target over the last almost decade?
 
Carson Holmquist: Well, like a lot of these hero targets, it started out a little bit more broad. And I wanted to serve innovative companies, as opposed to companies that were competing in a commodity industry where it’s more about cost, containments and scale. I loved working with true innovators because they were trying to solve difficult problems and I know they needed a better solution on the transportation side to help them achieve it.
 
But really over the last couple years, I’ve really homed in on this off-site construction industry. I want to be a hero to modern methods of construction. So, anything that’s going to help us get to a better place with construction, whether that’s scale faster or make lived-in spaces more affordable or more interesting. And I love this industry because it affects all of us. We’re always in a lived-in space that was constructed. And the trend towards moving that to a manufactured environment with much more precision is really interesting. But more technologies are coming down in the construction world too, and I love being a hero to those and helping buildings come to life.
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah. One thing that’s really interesting is that this actually has a very old pedigree. Sears and Roebuck at the turn of the previous century in 1900, when they were catalog, the big catalogs came out, you could buy an entire house at Sears and Roebuck. And they had, as far as I can tell, they had dozens and dozens of different styles. And you’d put in an order for a house, and it would arrive within two weeks, the kit. It would come in boxes after boxes—came by train, and it came to towns. And it sent you a list of specifications of craftspeople you were going to need; so you had to bring a contractor or a team of skilled people together. And every part of that house was pre-cut and numbered. And in a matter of two or three months, they would take all the pieces and put them together. That was in 1900.
 
Certain of these homes, there are communities, Frankenmuth, Michigan, I think has about 50 of them. And you can’t tear them down—these are national treasures. So, the whole notion of creating something in a factory—it was created in a factory and then it was shipped—that has a long pedigree. But I think it fell away. It fell away probably the depression, the two world wars, and then the fact that there was an abundance of skilled labor, and the interstate highway system was expanding the country after the Second World War. It went to... No, you had the skilled trades, and they were very fast, and they could put houses up very fast.
 
But what would you say has changed most, so that this is now seen as a real unfair advantage? From the standpoint of, one, the people who are manufacturing the modules and, two, the contractors who are now... Because they’re doing the same thing you’re doing, they’re creating a smaller niche that they’re going to expand. So, both of them are small niches that are going to expand. So, what’s been the biggest change that you think? Because you’ve lived through it?
 
Carson Holmquist: Yeah. I think there’s several converging factors that are making off-site construction and modular construction much more viable today. So, one is definitely labor. So, there is a massive shortage of skilled labor in the building trades—just massive. So, to meet the demand of today, they don’t have the individuals to recruit to keep up with the demand. So, they have to fundamentally change the way buildings are made. So, if you’re shifting the construction into a warehouse—and now it becomes a manufacturing environment—the types of individuals you can recruit is very different. There’s a lot more automation, there’s a lot more tech, and these are controlled environments. So, it’s more attractive to a wider array of individuals. So, you basically can pull in new types of labor. So that’s one major factor.
 
The second one is technology that makes this easier. So, it starts with the design technology; being able to design a building using modular methods and then having those individual plans transfer to robotics or transfer to floor designs, that’s a major advantage today that they didn’t used to have. And within the technology umbrella, you also have robotics. So particularly, in a steel framed modular construction, and even with timber framed, there’s opportunities for a lot of automation using robotics.
 
So again, that’s a labor play because there’s less individuals required, but it’s also a speed in automation play. Labor and technology are two of the main driving factors, but also demand. Demand is just so high, and it has been for quite a while, that they had to explore other methods or else the demand would never be met.
 
Dan Sullivan: Yup. I’ve been studying Henry Ford’s assembly line—1915. The car industry was a craftsman industry until Henry Ford came along. Okay. You’d have three or four people who would build a car; if they knocked out a car a day, that was extreme speed. And Henry Ford said, “Well, I’ve been to the Hunt’s meat factory in Chicago, and they have grandstands there. The people watch 100,000 pigs come in on this end of the building and they go out as canned meat at the end of the day.” And he said, “I think we can do this with automobiles."
 
The interesting thing is the US has always suffered from a lack of skilled labor, okay? And the reason is, technologically, methods are always moving forward. So, someone who may have been a really crucial skill at one level of technology is not prepared for the next level of technology.
 
Okay. It seems to me what you’re saying is that it’s a new form of manufacturing, but it’s requiring higher levels of skills. And it seems to me that it’s not so much the individuals, it’s the teams that you can put together. So, it seems to me that you’re hiring teams who all work together and they can adjust to new requirements for materials, new adjustments for designs, in a way that somebody who’s a skilled carpenter and is used to two-by-fours and plywood and everything else, interesting skills, but they wouldn’t be a good member of some of these teams. Is that what you’re saying?
 
Carson Holmquist: That’s exactly right. And usually, these teams are oriented around a specific sub-assembly. So, in any construction project, there are some processes that are not replicated, like building the foundation, right? That’s one singular process. But then there’s some processes that are replicated over and over, so constructing walls or bathrooms or different spaces. And those can be broken down into subassemblies; built teams around teams of experts, processes, and technology can be applied to that, so that you can construct it much more efficiently. And that happens today. Right now, the trend is that’s being done in a warehouse with specialized teams. It’s being shipped to the site and then assembled. So, there still is a construction element. It’s more of a hybrid model. It’s not fully built in a warehouse, but it’s specialized based off of teams that are building subassemblies.
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah. One thing I just wanted to get this in and then we’ll go to Steve, that same process of upgrading labor has happened in all three parts of what you’re doing: at the factory local (the modular factory), at the transportation level, and at the final site construction level. It seems to me that what’s happening in one of them is happening in all three of them.
 
Carson Holmquist: That’s a great point. I would completely agree with that. All three of those stakeholders in the process have gotten more skilled and more specialized in the parts that they do well.
 
Dan Sullivan: Yup.
 
Steven Krein: Dan, I think, and maybe we’ll do this in the next Free Zone session, which the podcast listeners will have to tune in for next time, but I think a visual representation of this would be fascinating, right? If you took this—this is at least how I’m imagining what you just described as—there’s a multilayer impact on your company, but almost all of the players that interact with your company, not just your customers, but the suppliers, the truck drivers and everybody. So, it’s an interesting, multidimensional Free Zone.
 
The idea of mapping this out—and maybe you already have it mapped out Carson, and I’d love you to if you have, would be maybe a great visual to add for those who are watching the video version of this—but I’d love to see how you touch on who you want to be hero to. But then who they want to be a hero to gets impacted as well because what you’re really describing is easy to understand because you’re talking about physical product or physical service and definitely a physical manifestation of the results that come from reimagining the whole process.
 
Carson Holmquist: Yeah. I think it maps really well onto the concepts of Unique Ability and Who Not How. We’re able because we’re all specializing in a niche that we do well, that’s the unique organizational capability down to the individual Unique Abilities. And then, we’re finding each other, we become each other’s “Whos,” so we don’t have to figure out the “How.” So, the factories are specializing what they do really well, we’re taking our piece, and then the general contractor’s doing what they do. But it’s much more specialized than a site-built, traditional construction project.
 
Dan Sullivan: It’s very interesting. Mike Wandler, who’s in the Free Zone, and Mike, he’s the biggest manufacturer in Wyoming, the biggest manufacturing company. And what he constructs is huge parts for offshore oil rigs. And he’s just got the contract for the first five of what are called modular reactors. They don’t use the word nuclear anymore; its distilled sunshine, it’s synthesized sunshine and everything like that. But he’s got the contract and so, there’s going to be modular creation of nuclear. So, they’ll do it in the factory and then it’ll be shipped to the sites. It would be an interesting conversation.
 
And then Paul VanDuyne, who’s in the Program, and he’s now closing in on the number one privately-owned engineering company in the United States that does medical centers. And so, that would be an interesting conversation with you on, if it’s a new hospital complex, of actually designing it from the start as modular, right from the beginning. And then working out the logistics and where the factories are going to be. It’s interesting because essentially the whole landscape of industrial development in the United States is changing simply because I think what held that whole industry, both on the manufacturing side and the final site construction, was the fact that they were depending on traditional and not necessarily reliable transportation.
 
Carson Holmquist: I see that today, Dan. Factories’ potential is certainly being limited with inferior logistics solutions, for sure. And those who figured it out, reached their potential and they thrive. So, I know that the logistics model is a key element to the actual business model of off-site construction working.
 
Dan Sullivan: There’s a neat movie called The Battle of the Bulge, which was a very key battle right at the end of the Second World War. And it’s a meeting of German officers, and they’re really frustrated, and the lead general comes in and he puts a box down. He opens it up and it says, “Happy birthday, Tommy.” And he said, “We can’t get gasoline, we can’t get ammunition. And the Americans are sending fresh birthday cakes to their frontline soldiers.” And it really shows you getting things where they need to be at the exact moment is the key to all physical success.
 
Carson Holmquist: Yeah. I’ve heard Peter Zeihan talk about that, Dan, where I think the message is, essentially, one of the most underrated capabilities of the US military is the logistics operations. Being able to move individuals’ equipment and resources to where they need to be quickly and efficiently is a massive advantage that most people overlook.
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah. And the rations recently have shown us what it looks like when it doesn’t work. At the heart of the Free Zone, I see as an interchangeable model that works in one industry, the conceptual framework for a collaboration working in one industry, I see as applicable straight across the board in all industries, whether it’s a purely conceptual industry down to really an industry with a crucial parts weigh 50,000-60,000 pounds. Are you seeing simplifications here? That’s what your mind does. So, I’m not asking you to do something you weren’t already doing.
 
Steven Krein: Yeah. No. Look, I think it’s interesting for many years when you look to the left or the right in a coaching session at Strategic Coach, there was somebody in the financial services industry. You were often excited to talk to somebody from not the financial service industry because they would help you think about it differently. I never was in the financial services industry, from the internet and technology space now the healthcare and technology space. And I always think whenever you get out of the narrow focus of just the typical industries in Strategic Coach and find somebody like Carson doing this 10x-ing and Free Zoning in an industry, which is easier to understand at a lay level, easier to understand because you’re talking about such physical goods that for a hundred or hundreds of years have been pretty much standard operating protocol. So, yeah, it’s very helpful.
 
I’m immediately going to, I think, use this conversation in my own organization with many of my companies because you often hear people talking about the healthcare industry: it’s difficult to innovate. You talk about supply chain and some of the other things that everybody just shrugs and says it’s the way it is. And I think there’s a lot of illustrative ways that Carson has implemented innovation and these triple-play connections between different stakeholders to reimagine how to do something that seemed, or at least seems, impossible. I think Carson probably didn’t think it was impossible to attempt it.
 
But I like the idea that we’re taking the Free Zone and applying it in a different industry—the model. And I think for purposes of collaboration, which is at the core of everything in Free Zone, I think you’ve at least made it seem simple enough for others to get inspired to take action in whatever it is they’re doing.
 
So, I’ve enjoyed the conversation. I’d love Dan, if we can with remaining time, at least fit in you taking us through—maybe taking Carson through—the process of the triple play here. Because I think, the idea of these shortcuts, again, seems simple but is pretty intricate. But you’ve created a way to use this discussion to show people how it is operating in action.
 
Dan Sullivan: What I’m seeing here, because I haven’t thought about this before the actual conversation we’re having, but it seems to me that the real fundamental breakthroughs in collaboration are three-way collaborations. Okay. You need three to do it. Okay. So, transportation is a disconnected industry: “We’ll ship anything for anybody at any time. It doesn’t matter what it is.” It’s very disconnected from the specific needs of the construction industry. And the construction industry is: “We build buildings. We build them anywhere. And we scrounge for labor, and we’re worried about materials. And sorry; we thought it was going to take two months, but it’s going to take six months because you know how things—China’s the reason for everything.” And then you have the manufacturers who are a disconnected industry and they’ve got their own supply chain problems, labor problems. And then there’s the whole issues: “Well, we do our job, but once it leaves our factory, who knows what’s going to happen?”
 
And it seemed to me that you didn’t focus so much on what they’re doing inside; what you were focusing on was what happens between them and where the next step is, whether what they’re doing is valuable or not, depends upon what happens in the next step. And you’re doing that for yourself too because you encouraged, and more or less mandated at a certain point, that, “We’re not in the do everything for everybody at any time business. We’re just going to focus on a particular thing.” And you found, too, that our growth industries and that the most crucial thing for both of them is timing.
 
Carson Holmquist: Yes. I think that’s perfectly said Dan. And I think that their challenges when solved, make each other better. So that’s what we’re trying to do. That’s why we continue to look for opportunities even outside of transportation to do that. So, our whole suite of services related to transportation have been refined through projects, but we also have what we call a suite of unexpected value offerings that are more defined by the challenges that they continue to run into and help freeing up their capabilities for greater success.
 
Dan Sullivan: And I think that when you get involved with Keegan Caldwell and his IP Value Builder Process. I mean, his team’s going to have a field day with your learnings from all of the specific solutions that you’re creating, shortcuts and programs that you’re doing. So, you’re doing well. The profit is double what it was three years ago. But my sense is you’re creating an enormous amount of IP assets here that are just going to build as you go through the IP Value Builder.
 
Steven Krein: When you talked about Dan, the three-way collaboration, you talked about logistics and supply chain, you talked about construction, you talked about manufacturer. But the end beneficiary is the actual customer, the Starbucks, right? So, what’s interesting is by creating the three-way collaboration, the ultimate beneficiary, who by the way really gets the full value of the combination of all three, and I know you do as well. But it’s really interesting how to the Starbucks, going back to that example, the video you showed us, that’s a game changer. That’s a real game changer. And if you weren’t bringing these three different problems or issues, as Dan calls them, together to solve them, they wouldn’t get that benefit. I’d be interested in asking Dan, when you take those three collaborations and none of those three collaborators are the end beneficiary—because he’s not collaborating with Starbucks. He’s collaborating with everybody involved in helping deliver something like a final built store in four days for Starbucks. How do you message that or integrate that into your model?
 
Dan Sullivan: Well, he could move it down the line in any direction. So. He can go to the manufacturer level, okay? And he can create or someone else creates. You can encourage someone else create that you take the component products that come into the factory. They each have a factory too who are creating component products that come and you can go down the road and you can say, “Okay, we’re going to put a new service transportation service in between them and the factory manufacturer people.” Or you could go to the construction industry and they’re dealing with people who have issues too. You have the local—first of all, these all have to be zoned, there’s municipal process they have to go through. And then there’s investors in the property. I don’t see Carson doing this. And the reason is because he doesn’t have to move now because he’s in a universe that’s a constantly expanding universe and he’s got 48 continental states that he can work with. He doesn’t have to do that.
 
But there’s a teaching model that he can teach to his manufacturing clients and say, “You should put in standards that if they’re going to be dealing with you, they have to meet these just-in-time standards.” And you could do the same thing on the other end, and you can become a teacher to both of the other two people that you’re coordinating with.
 
The next book I’m going to write—and this particular podcast has firmed up my mind, the one I’ll start in November—the three words, I’ll tell you the first word is technology, the third word is teamwork, and in the middle is coaching. I think you’re actually a coach, okay? And you’ve got a specialty called transportation, but you’re using that to actually coach two other industries on how to upgrade their game in such a way, so that they can be amazing collaborators with each other. So, I think that the model for the future is technology coaching teamwork. Technology doesn’t coach itself. Teams don’t naturally think of technology to multiply themselves. You need a coaching model in the center.
 
Carson Holmquist: I love that Dan. It does at times feel like we’re coaching. And at the end of the day, even our proposal process, let’s say we’re working with a new factory and we’re trying to win that first project. I mean, we’re giving them our whole game plan. We’re telling them how we execute and why because we know no one else is going to be able to execute that same strategy. So, we’re not afraid of laying out the entire game plan. But if at the end of the day they don’t want to use us and implement some of the strategies, at the end of the day, we know we’ve still helped in their future success.
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah. It’s all value in whichever way you do. But what I see happening across the midsection of the US is that whole new communities are going to pop up. Okay. So, for example, if you reach a certain size community, you can’t grow any further if you don’t have an in-area fire station. So, Mike Wandler has created a portable station that you put in when they’re at 10,000. Let’s say, you have 10,000 residents and you go there, and you’ll outgrow it. But what allows you is to grow from 10,000 to 40,000 with one station. Then you need a permanent station, and you have to go through that. So, he just picks up that station, goes to another community of 10,000.
 
And his whole point is you can do that with nuclear reactors, the new nuclear reactors too. Is that you don’t even have to worry about being connected to the grid, you just put in a nuke in, and it takes care of all the electricity needs. And you don’t have all the red tape complexity that would be, “How are you going to plug in 40,000?” and everything. It’s a 10-year political discussion. Where if you just—the nuke comes with the town. So, I see this fast, sudden construction of communities as the ultimate combination of all the work that you’re doing and all the manufacturers are doing, the construction industries are doing. Peter Zeihan says the US is around 330 million legal and probably another 15 million not so legal. So, we’re about 345. And he said probably you could double the population of the United States and it wouldn’t be visible to anybody that there were twice as many people because there’s so much space. So, I see that happening. So, I think you’re on the, not that you should take your eye off the ball, but mighty forces are pushing forward the growth that you’re experiencing.
 
Carson Holmquist: Yes. And we see it. We’re living it every day. We’re seeing new factories pop up. We’re seeing our existing factories grow. We’re seeing exactly what you talked about, which are communities being developed really quickly using this modular technology. We just learned about a project on the SpaceX launch site where they’re putting in a ton of temporary housing for the launches so that people who are just coming in during those launches can stay there, and then they could be unoccupied when nothing’s going on. So those things are happening, we’re seeing it every day, and we only expect the trend to continue and accelerate.
 
Dan Sullivan: That factory, that TSMC is putting North of Phoenix, there as you go up 17 that’s out there, they’re going to have 20,000 workers there. This is the number one chip factory in Taiwan. They’re saying, “I think there’s a safer place on the planet for us to be.” And Phoenix is a good example.
 
Question for you: I start everything in Coach, was this due to the individual entrepreneur? And I’d like you just to reflect on that—from the standpoint of our standard measurement of whether you’re actually making headway is the Four Freedoms: Freedom of Time for you; Freedom of Money, the way you’re making your money, the amount of money; Freedom of Relationship, who you get to work with; also, Freedom of Purpose. So, if you could just use those as check-off marks to take us from student at Arizona State and then the apprenticeship with a logistics company and then the formation of your company. Who do you see you becoming, more and more as you go along, that was there at the beginning and is even stronger right now?
 
Carson Holmquist: Yeah. So, when I think about the Four Freedoms, the first one that comes to mind is definitely time because my... I’ve been in Coach for five years now. I would say the first couple years, the major accomplishment was that Freedom of Time. Where I was first person in, last person out, doing everything, I was the bottleneck for most processes. And the first couple years, I really focused on building a Self-Managing Company and putting people in place to operate within their Unique Ability and free up my Unique Ability. So, the changes we’ve seen over the last three years were not possible until I freed up my time. So, that was the first launching pad.
 
With what we’re doing now, the Freedom of Money is—it’s incredible, specifically for the company. We’re so much more profitable, which allows us to experiment and make investments that we wouldn’t otherwise be able to make in helping our clients. And at a team level, all of our team members are making more money now as well. So that freedom is greatly increased.
 
The Freedom of Relationships is why we got into high stakes freight. And what I mean by that is who we’re working with, who we want to be a hero to. We were serving a lot of companies that really didn’t value what we were doing, and they would drop us to save a few bucks. Those are very draining relationships when you’re pouring so much into the process, and it’s not being valued. Versus today we’re working with companies that are doing amazing things, which is energizing to be around, but we know we’re helping at a fundamental level, and we’re experiencing the gratitude from them. So, we’re just surrounded by innovators. Our team members are very creative and they’re continuing to get better.
 
And then purpose. Purpose, I feel like you really can only get to when you are figuring out those other three freedoms. The more freedom you have in the first three, it gives you the time, the energy to really focus on the purpose. And our organizational purpose of continuing to find better ways for our clients is so fun. We are deep into this off-site construction industry. We’re falling in love with it. We’re seeing the capabilities and what can happen, and we’re just surrounded by innovation.
 
So, our purpose is to help them reach their full potential. And we’re doing that in a lot of different creative ways. And if I can contrast that back to—in the middle of building streams, let’s call it three, four years in, it was more about copying a business model that existed and trying to improve upon it a little bit. And all four of those freedoms were sacrificed in that process because we really were in a commoditized industry, and we were just trying to take little steps to be a little bit better than the competition. And it was a race to the bottom in terms of profitability and numbers.
 
So, we’re in a completely different space. I feel like I’m far more creative because I’m only thinking about the future of the company. That’s all I do every day when I come in, I’m thinking, what are we doing really well right now and how can we make it even better? Where can we take this? Where can we apply these capabilities? And individual team members on our team are in similar spots, where they’re operating within their Unique Abilities, they’re coming in with a ton of energy. And every day we’re becoming a better version of ourselves and a better version of our company.
 
Dan Sullivan: That was chapter and verse, Steve.
 
Steven Krein: I know.
 
Dan Sullivan: That was right out of the good book.
 
Steven Krein: Dan, I think my biggest takeaway from both of these episodes was somebody who had the opportunity to create a future bigger than his past, but also to create and chart a course for the entire industry that’s bigger and better than its past. And I really applaud you, Carson, on the innovation that… A lot of people could have showed up to Strategic Coach and sat in these communities and, just like you said, made those little minor tweaks and been very comfortable, I’m sure, made plenty of money. But the game you’re playing and the game you’re showing others how to play—and by the way, demonstrating for people in other industries, how many different ways you can create Free Zones, and how many ways you can collaborate with different stakeholders to bring value to a shared stakeholder, which, interestingly enough, is not the one you want to be hero to, but the one that they want to be hero to—is really fantastic.
 
So, learned a lot. And I had an image, at least visually, that like, mind exploding during one of your explanations of what you’re doing to the different stakeholders or how you’re helping all the different stakeholders, not just get the value, but see the value. And I think your videos showing them the time lapse and showing them that stage, which is one great way of what I think many of us forget to do, which is show people the value in real time. So loved that and really learned a lot and going into this didn’t know anything and coming out of it felt like you’ve not only answered questions but gave me lots of ideas. And I think the listeners will say the same.
 
Carson Holmquist: Thank you, Steve. Appreciate that.
 
Dan Sullivan: Yeah. And I think going forward in the main thesis of the next little book, Technology–Coaching–Teamwork, is that more and more, everybody in the world, the structure, if you’re doing well, the structure of how you’re doing well is the same. You’re using coaching to connect teamwork with technology, and it makes silly all the discussions about technology eliminating human beings. Technology can do one of the three things. It can’t do coaching and it can’t do teamwork. So, I think there’s three things there. And the teamwork’s a multiplier; that’s the first multiplier that humans came up with was human teamwork. And then technology is where we can automate what human teamwork has already pioneered—methods and processes. And then we can automate that so that human teamwork can jump to the next level. And it seems to me that that’s what happens. I can’t see a point in your future where your team is not getting better as a result of the structure that you’ve created.
 
Carson Holmquist: I agree, Dan. I mean, I must say that if you look at the timeline of the improvements we’ve made, it maps perfectly over when I switched over to the Free Zone. And just being in a room surrounded by individuals who are thinking big, they’re thinking about collaborations, it’s innovative. And every quarter after I come back, I have breakthroughs. We can apply it to our team, we get better. So, thank you, Dan, for the coaching. Steve, it’s people like you who continue to inspire me to think bigger. But it’s an honor to be in that room. I mean, sometimes I’m just blown away about what people are doing, and it definitely challenges me to think bigger and think how we can take it to the next level.
 
Dan Sullivan: Good. Well, just to sign off here, from my standpoint, I’ll have Steve give you some final words on this, but first of all, I’m really proud to have been part of this presentation with you, Carson. And you’ve really given me an enormous amount of support in certain areas where I only had the concept, but I didn’t have any proof. I think in all of our podcasts you’ve given more physical proof. And you’ve also introduced that probably this is the physical world where the next great breakthroughs are going to be with technology. The technology we have, it’s underutilized by 98%. And I think the reason is it’s not really being applied to the physical world, and you’re showing us just a totally easy to understand application in industry that everybody immediately understands where the breakthroughs are. So, I just want to thank you for coming and sharing your experience with us. Steve?
 
Steven Krein: Yeah. I was going to say, I think that Carson’s wrap up of how his Four Freedoms have been impacted was a great bookend on these two episodes. But I think the framework for industries that are impacted and can be transformed by Free Zone entrepreneurs, now several years into the program, I think are breaking the mold of what previously was a limiting mindset around what’s possible. So, I appreciated, like I said, seeing what we were going to talk about today and then ending where we are, I think, we’ll provide everybody listening to today’s episode and the last episode, a real good framework for how they can apply these exact same things within their industry or within their company. And I think there’s multiple ideas about how to do it that come from this. And look forward to a more formal visual presentation of this in the workshop, Carson, because I think is a lot of good stuff to talk about and unpack here.
 
Carson Holmquist: Well, thank you both. It’s been an absolute honor. I’ve enjoyed our conversation and thank you both for everything you do.